Spin and goes, an overview and solutions

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With the recent release of Spin and goes by pokerstars (against many regulars wishes) there has been a rather big effect on the SnG community, as well as long running effects and some short term ones on cash and MTTs.

So what are the major effects that have occured so far?

-6 max hyper traffic plummeted for multiple stakes not just the 30s/60s

-Hu hyper traffic plummeted as well

-Cashgame traffic dropped 9% in the last week

-another top heavy distribution structure

Due to the release the traffic has all be re-routed to these games, leaving many SNE sng grinders stuck with out much choice but to either grind it out in negative edge games against each other and get SNE or give up after thousands of hours of hard sweat and tears.

Hu SnG regs have now suffered a huge drop in traffic which would mostly annoyingly effect those who are in orbits or cartels who had to battle for hours and hours to get into their respective levels.

Now if your sitting here smiling because your a cash or MTT reg this still effects you. Where do you think all the regs who can't cut it anymore in sngs due to the vastly higher reg count are heading? To your games. And lets face it if your a sng reg your skill set is almost always going to be higher then the standard MTT regs. As well as that you will find there likely is some level of traffic being diverted from MTTs towards spin and goes as well.

If your one of those glass half full types who haven't actually read into why spin and goes and terrible to grind and still think its a dandy idea then here is the reasoning as to why they suck.

1) little icm which means edges are smaller, fish lost a lot of equity in this department

2) the rake is higher 3handed in a hyper turbo spin and go, then it is with a 6max hyper

3) while the games are indeed soft the variance is so mindblowingly big its a massive issue, when somebody can grind 500k games and still run 1k bi's under ev its a problem for consistent incomes and for many people this just is not a problem, we require consistent incomes to survive and while variance in 6max hypers is high its definitely far more consistent then this.

4) For some reason stars has never released the great function that full tilt has had all along, a deal button that doesn't require stars input. If you did hit a 1k multiplier and were now playing for the max prize pool on a $30 the payout distribution looks like this the payouts are...




you will notice there's still no icm at any point in these structures, and the fact that we are forced to play for 27k hu is ludicrous since it basically can make or break a very long period of our grinding.

This is what the distributions of jackpot tables look like

Spin & Go prize pool Probability

1000x - 5 of 100,000

200x - 10 of 100,000

100x - 15 of 100,000

25x - 80 of 100,000

10x - 1,000 of 100,000

6x - 8,000 of 100,000

4x - 18,010 of 100,000

2x - 72,880 of 100,000

73% of the time we are playing for only 66% of the prizepool we paid for! This means graphs are expected to look like consistent downswings followed by large wins, similar to mtts.

So what are the Fixes?

Firstly if stars lowers rake these games will become more grind able and thus a reg pool will rebalanced within the SNG community meaning more fish for other games

Secondly if stars lowers the multiplier from 1k to something like 200x the variance would plummet and these games would become pretty appealing to a lot of grinders

Thirdly if stars were to release a system where players could control the deals the players could all do what they want to...chop. Then the variance would plummet and the games would also increase in appeal to grinders. For some reason FTP has this and stars never implemented this, whenever fish hit the jackpot all they are doing in chat is screaming CHOP followed by gentleman's agreement?

Fourth is introduce a different payout structure for the larger multipliers such as 25k/10k/7k, lowers variance and introduces icm to have an edge in

If we have to put up with these damn games then lets at least find a middle ground stars where we can all reach some level of happiness, instead of just raking in the money from casuals. There has been a lot of upset regs/anger towards your company recently and some are beginning to feel you don't care about player opinion anymore.

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